You should do an MFA if the structure is one you're creating for yourself.
Let me front with this: don't confuse an MFA for your own discipline and practice. Fill in the blanks here, but be real with yourself. Are you fresh out of twenty years of the K-12 and college ladder and used to having your next task handed to you on a platter? Do you think you need a master of some sort of tell you what to write? When to write? How to break a line? Where certain things start and other things begin? Prompts? Are you nostalgic for that first day of school and that crisp fall air? Because all those things will fall away again the moment you get your diploma. Your time is your life. Don't waste it delaying the inevitable day you'll (still) need to figure out how to write while surviving anyway.
If you're early in your writing practice, you should probably wait. Others' voices can end up muddying the waters of what you're trying to clarify on your own. You don't want to end up with work that's a Frankenstein of everyone's edit suggestions. You don't need a background in writing to get an MFA, but a lot of these programs don't offer sequential arcs like arithmetic going on algebra. You'll more likely be presented with, and attracted to, a course list of famous names, each with their own takes on writing, but as I said in 'How Do I Get Through My MFA Program?' (https://yanyi.substack.com/p/how-do-i-get-through-my-mfa-program), the best teachers are often not the most famous ones.
What can you do in the meantime? Give yourself flexibility and follow what feels right. Take a couple writing workshops (if you're low on cash, many offer scholarships or reduced tuition) and get to know what kinds of instruction work for you and what doesn't; build your confidence humbly. It will help. If you're lucky, you'll find some friends along the way. They are the ones who will really count down the road.
Now, if you're somewhat further along in your writing practice (e.g. you've taken your fair share of workshops, you can identify what in your writing makes it *yours*, and you've got those sparks of interest and regular practice that would benefit from more attention from teaching artists a little further along), yes, it might be time for you to consider a more formalized structure for your writing.
Manage your expectations and see any program you do as only one resource among many. While the usual MFA program offers time, attention, and community, your mileage will vary based on who the instructors are and the demographic backgrounds of the student body for the latter. Never join a program for a professor or a community: you may be in for a rude wake-up call or simply not click in the ways that you thought you would. If you move for the program, the setting matters—stepping back into majority-white parts of the US still put my on edge, for example. Having alternatives and back-up plans matter. The more options you have, the less trapped you will feel if things don't turn out in the ways you expected.
You will, at the very least, get some sort of healthcare, semester-based (usually) in-person study, and space and time to write (if you don't have to work—more on this later). Whether you achieve your goals depends on your initiative. There's no set curriculum: some programs require critical study while others focus exclusively on creative writing. I myself have gotten a lot out of taking cross-listed courses and having access to a research library.
For a change of pace, especially if you're working full-time, have childcare responsibilities, or are tired of semester-long workshops, you might consider a low-residency that gives you a formal, long-term advising relationship with a faculty member that culminates in 2-week residencies twice a year. This loose structure is a more intense version of what I did writing on my own with a full time job, and might be particularly beneficial if you need more flexibility in your schooling schedule and you have a strong sense of how you write but could benefit from focused attention. I've never done one, but I can see the skills that you hone with this model being useful after you graduate.
I’m soon to be 65, have written poetry all my life but only recently discovered how powerful the forms can be thanks to the gift of a book on the forms. My degrees are not in English, so I don’t really have more than one person who can write a reference for me on poetry, and although most schools say the most important part is your writing sample, I’ve also been told that the connections/references do count for a lot.
My reasons for wanting to do this are to learn both the craft and the reading - right now I’m doing that on my own with some help from the friend who gave me the book. I love the idea of having the focus of classes/workshops, time to write, and because I’m on a fixed income, I’d have to look at programs with financial help.
Yes, I’ve done writing workshops, both as student and instructor (not in poetry), and I understand that you take in the feedback and listen to it and sort out for yourself what really makes sense and what is not relevant.
Your earlier letter has made me wonder if this is the right move for me. I am doing a single poetry workshop virtually starting next week with a local college, but if I want to start a full MFA program next fall, I’d need to do the application this fall. I appreciate some of the questions you bring up, and while for many the low-residency works, that rarely has much financial help.
So I’m still trying to decide, still writing, still grateful for your letters, which have been wonderful and inspiring.
Hi again Doc! Which book did you receive? Is it A Little Book on Form by Robert Hass? I picked that up a few years ago and quite enjoyed it. I don't write in form often but do like reading about them a lot.
I relate to you on not studying English. Yes, references do count and they're part of a classist system that revolves around access (and recommendation letters). You can build your list of references by taking more writing classes, many of which offer financial assistance, outside of institutions and getting involved in literary organizations if that's possible for you. It's a little more slapdash and takes more initiative, but it's totally possible.
The financial aspect of the low-residency MFA is also a reason I didn't do it and ended up staying with classes around NYC myself. I will also say that MFA programs don't really have much consistency between them, even within them, of teaching about craft and the reading as you're looking for. With COVID, more literary organizations are offering classes virtually, so you'll find a lot of classes to pick from focusing on different aspects of craft. If you haven't done as many poetry workshops, you'll have more options than if you limited yourself to the couple of classes offered in a given program each semester, which you'd feel obligated to spend time on because you're on a degree track. For better or for worse, there's not really a set canon in learning how to write poetry, despite what people may tell (or sell) you.
Thanks, Yanyi. Sorry I didn’t see this right away - I thought you were already offline. The book was The Making of a Poem: A Norton Anthology of Poetic Form by Mark Strand and Evan Boland. My friend sent it early in the pandemic and I thought it would be fun to work my way through it and try each form. I fell in love with it. And it helped me understand that the poetry I’d been writing all my life was heartfelt, and only about me. Maybe it’s because I’m older now, but when I started working through the forms there was a kind of freedom I’d never experienced before in writing.
The bonus was that it also introduced me to Eavan Boland. I’d just been in Ireland for the first time in my life and something about her resonated deeply with me. Her work and the work of some of the other poets I’m beginning to read has meant a lot to me.
In some ways, your online work is like a deeper look at the work - a kind of MFA of the writing life. The irony is that the reason I never studied English is that when I told my mother I wanted to write for a living, her response was twofold - she always told my brother, sister and I, “You can do anything you want.” And when I told her I wanted to write, she said, “What makes you think you’re good enough?” I kept writing, but I never tried to do anything with it for a very long time.
Thanks for your response. It gives me some great food for thought, and I appreciate it. I look forward to continuing to learn with you and in many other ways as well. Take care!
Thank you for your specificity! It paints the picture in a way I don’t see a lot. I’ve been doing a lot of reading and thinking and tbqh I’m relieved that I don’t “need” to go the mfa route (at least not right now.)
I feel like I don’t know how to find the “right” MFA program besides geography since so much depends on how interactions with your cohort and faculty go. Do you have any thoughts on what to look for in finding or creating a good learning environment?
Hi Matthew! There's only so much you can look for short of being in a classroom yourself. I think class visits, post-acceptance (or pre-acceptance if you can do it), are a crucial way to do this. I actually decided not to go somewhere after I saw that their incoming class was only white people.
You can evaluate the program first by deciding on whether you want a studio program or program that requires a critical aspect and looking around for what each program actually requires. Most programs also allow you to speak with current students who will likely be more frank with you about the student body and professors. I also recommend taking a class with a faculty member you're interested in if you happen to live somewhere with a literary center that offers them, or online, and at the very least, check out their interviews and what they're like in live events. I did this once with a potential faculty member and saved myself an application cycle. ;)
Should I get an MFA if I’d like to complete a project? I have a series of half-finished/almost finished short stories that I’d ideally like to form a collection with. But I’m struggling to see what fits together, and some stories seem underdeveloped. I’m also wary of western-centric MFA programs (in the US or UK) as I primarily write about Hong Kong, or diaspora experience—but I think I’d also enjoy the change of environment. Someone once told me that if you’re struggling to write about home, you should try leaving it for a bit.
Hm, this is good question! Without your context, I would say probably, but it seems as though the thing you might want to look for is mentorship and guidance from a more experienced writer. A fellowship that includes mentorship or even a residency that would just give you time and space might be a better choice for you. Unfortunately most MFA programs I know of are workshop-centric, so you'd end up spending a lot of time receiving the opinions of other students which *could* be helpful but more likely to misinterpret and miss what you might be trying to express in your work.
Perhaps it would be beneficial to leave home for a bit, as this person suggests, but don't join a program to do it.
Should I get an MFA to make connections in the literary world? I’m not from an English-speaking country, though I write in English, and know no one in the literary or publishing world. I’ve heard it repeatedly said that being a writer is about networking, but I have no idea how to get “in” to that particular network if not a MFA. To be honest, everything I’ve heard and read about MFAs terrify me: the treatment of POC (especially WOC writers), indifferent or borderline abusive “mentors”, and workshops for the sake of workshops (no thought for methodology or whether it works for everyone).
Should I get an MFA if...I am looking to find my writing community?
I am really curious because you mention above that one should "Never join a program for a professor or a community..." and I am curious about your experiences there. I myself am in a small MFA program in Canada and our writing cohort is very small (think 11?). But even after a year of trying to reach out, connect and suggesting things to do(remotely in the time of Covid no less), we aren't clicking. I know that writing cohorts are weird - you share vulnerable drafty pieces of yourself with almost complete strangers and hope that it breeds some sort of intimacy. But when it doesn't...I feel it leads me down a path of questioning belonging, purpose. It's like, is it my writing or....? Anywho, rambles. Loving these pieces you are putting out - thank you!
You should do an MFA if the structure is one you're creating for yourself.
Let me front with this: don't confuse an MFA for your own discipline and practice. Fill in the blanks here, but be real with yourself. Are you fresh out of twenty years of the K-12 and college ladder and used to having your next task handed to you on a platter? Do you think you need a master of some sort of tell you what to write? When to write? How to break a line? Where certain things start and other things begin? Prompts? Are you nostalgic for that first day of school and that crisp fall air? Because all those things will fall away again the moment you get your diploma. Your time is your life. Don't waste it delaying the inevitable day you'll (still) need to figure out how to write while surviving anyway.
If you're early in your writing practice, you should probably wait. Others' voices can end up muddying the waters of what you're trying to clarify on your own. You don't want to end up with work that's a Frankenstein of everyone's edit suggestions. You don't need a background in writing to get an MFA, but a lot of these programs don't offer sequential arcs like arithmetic going on algebra. You'll more likely be presented with, and attracted to, a course list of famous names, each with their own takes on writing, but as I said in 'How Do I Get Through My MFA Program?' (https://yanyi.substack.com/p/how-do-i-get-through-my-mfa-program), the best teachers are often not the most famous ones.
What can you do in the meantime? Give yourself flexibility and follow what feels right. Take a couple writing workshops (if you're low on cash, many offer scholarships or reduced tuition) and get to know what kinds of instruction work for you and what doesn't; build your confidence humbly. It will help. If you're lucky, you'll find some friends along the way. They are the ones who will really count down the road.
Now, if you're somewhat further along in your writing practice (e.g. you've taken your fair share of workshops, you can identify what in your writing makes it *yours*, and you've got those sparks of interest and regular practice that would benefit from more attention from teaching artists a little further along), yes, it might be time for you to consider a more formalized structure for your writing.
Manage your expectations and see any program you do as only one resource among many. While the usual MFA program offers time, attention, and community, your mileage will vary based on who the instructors are and the demographic backgrounds of the student body for the latter. Never join a program for a professor or a community: you may be in for a rude wake-up call or simply not click in the ways that you thought you would. If you move for the program, the setting matters—stepping back into majority-white parts of the US still put my on edge, for example. Having alternatives and back-up plans matter. The more options you have, the less trapped you will feel if things don't turn out in the ways you expected.
You will, at the very least, get some sort of healthcare, semester-based (usually) in-person study, and space and time to write (if you don't have to work—more on this later). Whether you achieve your goals depends on your initiative. There's no set curriculum: some programs require critical study while others focus exclusively on creative writing. I myself have gotten a lot out of taking cross-listed courses and having access to a research library.
For a change of pace, especially if you're working full-time, have childcare responsibilities, or are tired of semester-long workshops, you might consider a low-residency that gives you a formal, long-term advising relationship with a faculty member that culminates in 2-week residencies twice a year. This loose structure is a more intense version of what I did writing on my own with a full time job, and might be particularly beneficial if you need more flexibility in your schooling schedule and you have a strong sense of how you write but could benefit from focused attention. I've never done one, but I can see the skills that you hone with this model being useful after you graduate.
I’m soon to be 65, have written poetry all my life but only recently discovered how powerful the forms can be thanks to the gift of a book on the forms. My degrees are not in English, so I don’t really have more than one person who can write a reference for me on poetry, and although most schools say the most important part is your writing sample, I’ve also been told that the connections/references do count for a lot.
My reasons for wanting to do this are to learn both the craft and the reading - right now I’m doing that on my own with some help from the friend who gave me the book. I love the idea of having the focus of classes/workshops, time to write, and because I’m on a fixed income, I’d have to look at programs with financial help.
Yes, I’ve done writing workshops, both as student and instructor (not in poetry), and I understand that you take in the feedback and listen to it and sort out for yourself what really makes sense and what is not relevant.
Your earlier letter has made me wonder if this is the right move for me. I am doing a single poetry workshop virtually starting next week with a local college, but if I want to start a full MFA program next fall, I’d need to do the application this fall. I appreciate some of the questions you bring up, and while for many the low-residency works, that rarely has much financial help.
So I’m still trying to decide, still writing, still grateful for your letters, which have been wonderful and inspiring.
Hi again Doc! Which book did you receive? Is it A Little Book on Form by Robert Hass? I picked that up a few years ago and quite enjoyed it. I don't write in form often but do like reading about them a lot.
I relate to you on not studying English. Yes, references do count and they're part of a classist system that revolves around access (and recommendation letters). You can build your list of references by taking more writing classes, many of which offer financial assistance, outside of institutions and getting involved in literary organizations if that's possible for you. It's a little more slapdash and takes more initiative, but it's totally possible.
The financial aspect of the low-residency MFA is also a reason I didn't do it and ended up staying with classes around NYC myself. I will also say that MFA programs don't really have much consistency between them, even within them, of teaching about craft and the reading as you're looking for. With COVID, more literary organizations are offering classes virtually, so you'll find a lot of classes to pick from focusing on different aspects of craft. If you haven't done as many poetry workshops, you'll have more options than if you limited yourself to the couple of classes offered in a given program each semester, which you'd feel obligated to spend time on because you're on a degree track. For better or for worse, there's not really a set canon in learning how to write poetry, despite what people may tell (or sell) you.
Thanks, Yanyi. Sorry I didn’t see this right away - I thought you were already offline. The book was The Making of a Poem: A Norton Anthology of Poetic Form by Mark Strand and Evan Boland. My friend sent it early in the pandemic and I thought it would be fun to work my way through it and try each form. I fell in love with it. And it helped me understand that the poetry I’d been writing all my life was heartfelt, and only about me. Maybe it’s because I’m older now, but when I started working through the forms there was a kind of freedom I’d never experienced before in writing.
The bonus was that it also introduced me to Eavan Boland. I’d just been in Ireland for the first time in my life and something about her resonated deeply with me. Her work and the work of some of the other poets I’m beginning to read has meant a lot to me.
In some ways, your online work is like a deeper look at the work - a kind of MFA of the writing life. The irony is that the reason I never studied English is that when I told my mother I wanted to write for a living, her response was twofold - she always told my brother, sister and I, “You can do anything you want.” And when I told her I wanted to write, she said, “What makes you think you’re good enough?” I kept writing, but I never tried to do anything with it for a very long time.
Thanks for your response. It gives me some great food for thought, and I appreciate it. I look forward to continuing to learn with you and in many other ways as well. Take care!
Thank you for your specificity! It paints the picture in a way I don’t see a lot. I’ve been doing a lot of reading and thinking and tbqh I’m relieved that I don’t “need” to go the mfa route (at least not right now.)
*still put me on edge
I feel like I don’t know how to find the “right” MFA program besides geography since so much depends on how interactions with your cohort and faculty go. Do you have any thoughts on what to look for in finding or creating a good learning environment?
Hi Matthew! There's only so much you can look for short of being in a classroom yourself. I think class visits, post-acceptance (or pre-acceptance if you can do it), are a crucial way to do this. I actually decided not to go somewhere after I saw that their incoming class was only white people.
You can evaluate the program first by deciding on whether you want a studio program or program that requires a critical aspect and looking around for what each program actually requires. Most programs also allow you to speak with current students who will likely be more frank with you about the student body and professors. I also recommend taking a class with a faculty member you're interested in if you happen to live somewhere with a literary center that offers them, or online, and at the very least, check out their interviews and what they're like in live events. I did this once with a potential faculty member and saved myself an application cycle. ;)
Should I get an MFA if I’d like to complete a project? I have a series of half-finished/almost finished short stories that I’d ideally like to form a collection with. But I’m struggling to see what fits together, and some stories seem underdeveloped. I’m also wary of western-centric MFA programs (in the US or UK) as I primarily write about Hong Kong, or diaspora experience—but I think I’d also enjoy the change of environment. Someone once told me that if you’re struggling to write about home, you should try leaving it for a bit.
Hm, this is good question! Without your context, I would say probably, but it seems as though the thing you might want to look for is mentorship and guidance from a more experienced writer. A fellowship that includes mentorship or even a residency that would just give you time and space might be a better choice for you. Unfortunately most MFA programs I know of are workshop-centric, so you'd end up spending a lot of time receiving the opinions of other students which *could* be helpful but more likely to misinterpret and miss what you might be trying to express in your work.
Perhaps it would be beneficial to leave home for a bit, as this person suggests, but don't join a program to do it.
Should I get an MFA to make connections in the literary world? I’m not from an English-speaking country, though I write in English, and know no one in the literary or publishing world. I’ve heard it repeatedly said that being a writer is about networking, but I have no idea how to get “in” to that particular network if not a MFA. To be honest, everything I’ve heard and read about MFAs terrify me: the treatment of POC (especially WOC writers), indifferent or borderline abusive “mentors”, and workshops for the sake of workshops (no thought for methodology or whether it works for everyone).
I worry about those things too.
Should I get an MFA if...I am looking to find my writing community?
I am really curious because you mention above that one should "Never join a program for a professor or a community..." and I am curious about your experiences there. I myself am in a small MFA program in Canada and our writing cohort is very small (think 11?). But even after a year of trying to reach out, connect and suggesting things to do(remotely in the time of Covid no less), we aren't clicking. I know that writing cohorts are weird - you share vulnerable drafty pieces of yourself with almost complete strangers and hope that it breeds some sort of intimacy. But when it doesn't...I feel it leads me down a path of questioning belonging, purpose. It's like, is it my writing or....? Anywho, rambles. Loving these pieces you are putting out - thank you!