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The answer to this question depends on what you're actually asking. If you want to become a writer, that's free to do and you can do it anywhere. But I think we all know: this question should really read "should I get an MFA if...(I want to make money off it and) I live in New York City?"

This Leslie Jamison essay already breaks down how ironic this binary is (https://newrepublic.com/article/116778/mfa-vs-nyc-most-useful-explanation-how-writers-get-paid). In short, she writes that the MFA with its academic machinery and the publishing industry in New York City usually comprise a portfolio of a successful writer's portfolio. I agree with her.

Over the years, I've chosen NYC time and time again over an MFA. I took classes from literary institutions across the city. If I chose well, the content of the classes were not much different than what was offered at MFAs—the teaching artists were the same and their classes just as useful or interesting, with one key difference: there were no office hours, and the classes usually were 4-6 weeks vs. the 12 weeks of the university system. There was also little continuity between those who I was taking class with, both between instructors and other students. That famous writer you're rubbing shoulders with on the street doesn't have a reason to pay attention to you outside of the hours you're spending in class.

Economically speaking, I took maybe 8 classes for around $400 each, totaling $3200 compared to the average cost of, say, a program like Columbia, which was about $65k this year in tuition alone (https://arts.columbia.edu/tuition/first-second-year-mfa-students). (This point doesn't matter, though, because you've already taken my advice to never take on debt or pay for a program! ) It only took one class to pay off—one writing master class turned into a small group of friends with whom I navigated and questioned Submittable, cover letters, and workshops together for years.

Access, I think, is the real difference. Access is a class issue and not only on the student side. A writer who's not sure where their next paycheck is coming from doesn't have the luxury of extra time to get coffee with you or write your next recommendation, let alone everyone in the class. It's not personal—it's simply the (messed up) reality of class within the literary community. (If you've met an independent writer who's not working a second job or independently wealthy who's still willing to do work like this, recognize that and at think about compensating them fairly if you have the resources). At an MFA, your professors will, at least, give you some attention, even if it's just 10 minutes a semester. And it matters for recommendations, which plug into a prestige economy that I am honestly too tired to talk about right now (but maybe someone can pay me to, haha).

I felt this lack of access acutely as a teenager in the Midwest; I even felt it when I was working in tech in NYC, treating poetry as my serious "side thing." While I could go to as many poetry readings I wanted, if I went alone, I left events right as they ended to avoid awkwardly standing there while people closed ranks in their friend groups. This stopped only after years of publishing, reading, and curating events in New York myself, enabled by my day job, which enabled my getting mental health support and getting my basic needs met. There's also a class reason behind being able to show up day after day.

An MFA is a professional degree, but don't get one to become a "professional writer."

Here is the non-starter: do not, under any circumstances, go into debt or pay to get an MFA. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. If you're convincing yourself because you were raised to believe that a professional education is supposed to open doors, read my column 'Money Seems More Real Than My Art' (https://yanyi.substack.com/p/money-seems-more-real-than-my-art).

If your only concern is getting a tenure-track job in creative writing, the only doors it will open are maybe, *maybe,* a university mandating that you have a terminal degree in your field in order for you to teach there. More likely than that, though, you will be applying to adjunct with no guaranteed benefits. Jobs are scarce and you'll also be up against writers who have gone on to get creative writing PhDs, increasingly popular as the market continues to thin out. The professionalization of creative writing programs, too, is a very recent, 1950s-and-onward, development. There's a point when your resume can end up outshining the letters after your name, anyway, as a teaching artist.

To repeat it differently: do not get an MFA (and don't become an artist) to make money. My first publication paid me a respectful, and surprising, $20 for five poems, and that was the most money I made for at least the first couple of years. I was grateful and proud to buy a meal with my first poetry earnings. Fast-forward to now—even in my early successes as a writer, I usually am at a loss or net out year-over-year and mostly live off savings I earned while working in tech.

There's obviously more to say about this, but I'll leave it to this for now, unless someone wants me to commission me to write the essay, haha.

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Sep 1, 2020Liked by Yanyi

I came to NYC for my MFA in game design & development. While here & working in another industry, I found a writing community through places like AAWW, Kundiman's weekend intensives, and Catapult. Taking workshops through places that are welcoming helped me move past negative workshop experiences I had as an undergraduate that put me off from pursuing the MFA in creative writing to begin with. I believe I've become a better writer through community & writing fellowships that are accessible in the city. I think being in a creative writing MFA would have consumed me (personally) in unhealthy ways (much like the PhD path I was headed in literary studies).

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Sep 1, 2020Liked by Yanyi

Hi Yanyi, first off, thanks so much for starting this Q&A and discussion! I am also interested in writing and currently working in tech since I really needed the independence and freedom afforded by high-paying software jobs. I'm lucky enough to live in NYC, but since I majored in computer science in a very STEM-heavy school, I barely have any pals IRL who are into writing prose or poetry. Your free online advice is super valuable to people like me who aren't part of any writing communities and don't know what's out there or what are things to do if you're interested in writing professionally.

I would love to hear your and anyone else's thoughts on how to join or build a writing community after college, if you didn't pursue such a community while in college or other academic tracks. Further complicating the issue is the pandemic, since open mics aren't happening every night across each borough. Finally, if anyone else reading this is also hungry to be part of a writing community, I would love to hear from you!

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Sep 1, 2020Liked by Yanyi

This makes a lot of sense.

I live in the UK (am from America originally) and the creative writing post-grad landscape is a little different (both cost and duration) but at the user-end this logic applies completely.

I was riveted by the Nation article you linked to a few newsletters ago about the CIA's backing of certain lit magazines. Fascinating on its own, but deep in that interview was this quote, attributed to a nameless Japanese dancer, "All culture is subculture." In context, it's talking about how expensive it is to create culture, so these systems got created to do so, and now that we live in the future, it's time to re-examine how we look at publishing, and self-publishing... and I think this can be applied to your thoughts on education, this idea that an institution can anoint you with oil and doors will open. Not saying that doesn't happen, or that this isn't a valid strategy, but for us out here operating without an education (or at least one with any brand equity), there's something empowering about just fully embracing the DIY nature of one's own creative practice.

A lockdown silver-lining, for me, is having access to American writers going to the web and teaching classes or giving lectures, usually writers from America who would, I'm sure, love to tour the UK, but find their book tours staying regional or at least US-based only. Ditto for courses from all over that are, by default, in-person, but who have gone online to cast a wider net after, I'm sure, having to cancel months of bookings over safety issues. I hope this remains the case after in-person becomes safer. I've lived in London for 12 years before moving to the south coast of England and the challenges for people not living in major cities in accessing education or art or job opportunities are as pronounced over here as they are in America.

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Sep 1, 2020Liked by Yanyi

Hey Yanyi, I am considering a MFA in art and I feel like the conversation around this is quite similar as the question of MFA in creative writing.

I am interested in the space and time a MFA offers to really hone in on the craft. I know residencies and fellowships exist for this reason, but it's not easy to balance this with trying to make a living. Can you talk about how residencies and fellowships be can as effective for cultivating that thinking space?

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this is so helpful as i've been considering a low residency mfa just to get consistent eyes on my work through the years. the writing group i'm a part of does help with that but i wonder if i need an established writer to at least help me get to where i want with my work -- publishing a memoir.

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Hey Yanyi, no question but just wanted to say, as someone also living off savings made from working in tech and considering moving away from NY after my mfa is done next year to try to stretch that money, I feel you and will read the crap out of any column you write on the topic! Here’s to figuring out life.

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